Chromogenic bacteria – 15 month old baby teeth

  • January 10, 2014 at 6:39 pm #64579
    Profile photo of AngelmilaAngelmila
    Participant

    Hi : )

    I noticed that there was a post about this topic 3 years ago and I was wondering if any of you ladies were able to successfully resolve this issue.

    My 15 month old baby girl has her teeth affected by this staining. Pediatric dentist thinks it’s from iron, but she has never been on iron supplement. I checked her formula, she was partially breastfed and found out that it was iron-fortified. However, she hasn’t been on formula for more than 4 months and her teeth are getting stained more and more. I can see new teeth popping up all white and shiny and in just a week or so they are getting stained. So frustrating!

    She is neurotypical but has many food sensitivities. She eats a very healthy diet, very much in line with Weston Price Foundation guidelines. Tons of fermented veggies, raw milk, broths, etc. I don’t know if she has two much iron in her diet but I guess it’s a problem of improper absorption.

    After a lot of research I found out that specific bacteria causing this condition is Actinomyces and Prevotella melaninogenicus. I guess that solution would be to treat this bacteria as well as to re-balance her iron/calcium level.

    Have no idea how to do that though.

    I would really appreciate your advice!

    D

  • January 10, 2014 at 9:33 pm #64580
    Profile photo of WyndieWyndie
    Participant

    Hi and welcome to BEDROK!

    I have not found a way to deal with this issue. My kids can come home from the dentist with freshly cleaned teeth; brush religiously after each meal and wake up the next day with black on their teeth.

    My children also have multiple food allergies so that’s an interesting correlation with your dd.

    I don’t know about the iron thing. I have had chronic anemia my whole life so I know my children were born with low iron. They cannot possibly have too much iron in their diets. Or may be as you said, it’s a malabsorption problem with iron. I’m not sure how to deal with this situation but perhaps since it’s been brought up, and we have new people, someone can offer insight that we do not have. 🙂

  • January 11, 2014 at 1:38 pm #64581
    Profile photo of tylertaylintylertaylin
    Participant

    So weird, my kids too. We don’t have black….but they aren’t white. They look a bit tan, stained somewhat like a coffee drinker. I have stayed away from dentist offices. The one time we went I got yelled at about not using fluoride. My kids were breastfed. I”m not low in iron.

    Are we talking black marks…..or staining tan or yellow or what?

    Shannon

  • January 11, 2014 at 2:14 pm #64583
    Profile photo of AngelmilaAngelmila
    Participant

    Thank you for your answer. Hers are definitely grey/black stains.

  • January 11, 2014 at 2:32 pm #64584
    Profile photo of tylertaylintylertaylin
    Participant

    oh…..we dno’t have have grey or black. But my daughter especially looks to have stained teeth. She begs me to buy Crest White Strips…. (as she sees on tv and her aunt uses them)

    Shannon

  • January 11, 2014 at 2:49 pm #64585
    Profile photo of WyndieWyndie
    Participant

    Shannon, this looks like totally different. The teeth stain black in stripes, almost like it drips down from the gum line (or up) and happens within hours of the teeth being cleaned professionally. Actually I have never met anyone else in real life who has it. Even our dentist has never seen it.

  • January 11, 2014 at 3:00 pm #64586
    Profile photo of AngelmilaAngelmila
    Participant

    For my DD stains started to come back 3 days after professional cleaning. Wyndie, how do you manage the stains? Also, did you try to use any homeopathic remedies that would normalize iron levels in the body?

  • January 11, 2014 at 4:57 pm #64595
    Profile photo of WyndieWyndie
    Participant

    D,

    I found that if my girls will use the sonic toothbrush every day, they can keep it at bay for the most part. But children just aren’t that faithful so about 1-2 times a week, they work very hard with their sonic brush to get as much of the black off as possible. They always have some degree of it on their teeth but since starting homeopathy, it is less so. I believe balancing the body with hpathy is helping. I am not giving them seomthing specifically for the bacteria – my homeopath agrees that as their body achieves balance, it should right itself.

  • January 11, 2014 at 5:27 pm #64596
    Profile photo of AngelmilaAngelmila
    Participant

    Wow, we think alike : ) I just bought Sonicare for my daughter, but she hated it : ( I tried it on myself, the lowest setting, the same that I used for her and I hated it too. As a matter of fact, my teeth still hurt from it. I can’t imagine how she felt about it. Poor thing.

    So, we are back to sterile bandage gauze : )

    What homeopathy are you doing, classical or sequential? My daughter doesn’t have severe allergies, she doesn’t go into anaphylactic shock or anything like that, but there is definitely some kind of imbalance going on because she also has a skin condition, called keratosis pilaris. That’s why I did food sensitivities test (hidden allergies) and found out that she is sensitive to more than 30 foods.

    She is also on supplements and traditional foods, very GAPs like. Unfortunately, it didn’t help with her skin condition so far and now this thing with her teeth : ( Very frustrating…

  • January 11, 2014 at 7:17 pm #64597
    Profile photo of tylertaylintylertaylin
    Participant

    wow that sounds very frustrating, I’ll keep my ears open!s

    Shannon

  • January 11, 2014 at 10:38 pm #64598
    Profile photo of AngelmilaAngelmila
    Participant

    Very interesting and detailed research regarding black stains including names of bacteria that cause it:

    http://www.quintpub.com/userhome/ohpd/ohpd_2011_01_s0037.pdf

  • January 11, 2014 at 10:40 pm #64599
    Profile photo of AngelmilaAngelmila
    Participant

    “In most cases, spontaneous disappearance is
    seen in the end of the second life decade (Stöckli
    and Ben-Zur, 1994). Only little information can be
    found on its prevalence in the adult population.”

    Lets hope that our kids grow out of it eventually : )

  • January 12, 2014 at 9:22 am #64600
    Profile photo of EvaEva
    Keymaster

    There is a probiotic spray for this condition, was told about it by my homeopath but never have tried it yet as the cell salts have helped my son. He too had this odd staining and it is brownish/grey. He has to be put under general to have his teeth cleaned so you can understand the intense frustration we felt when the staining kept coming back within days.

    Brushing with baking soda helped but the cell salts were the best thing for him.

  • January 12, 2014 at 9:34 am #64601
    Profile photo of tylertaylintylertaylin
    Participant

    Maybe I’m describing what you are seeing in Donny Eva. It’s tan/brown here. I’ve never heard of the cell salts. I’ll also start making a baking soda paste for mine. Thanks….. Can you share how/where I get cell salts Eva? I’ve only taken my kids to the dentist 1x. Partly because I’m sick of dealing with xrays, and fluoride, but also due to the cost. Also due to the time…I’ve just not made it a priority. Never enough time when you are already running full speed ahead.

    Shannon

  • January 12, 2014 at 11:41 am #64602
    Profile photo of AngelmilaAngelmila
    Participant

    Eva,

    Thank you so much for your reply. Would you be able to find out the name of this probiotic spray? I would really appreciate it. Her teeth are getting really bad, all black on the inside, it looks scary. People started commenting on it, ughhhh.

    I tried a little bit of baking soda on her and it did come off however that area got repopulated with stains extremely fast next day. I feel like the coating of her teeth, I believe it’s called pellicle is too thin that’s why bacteria sticks to it so easily.

    Also, baking soda is not good for a long run because it is very abrasive. I tried to make my own toothpaste with it and had to throw it away, my teeth became so sensitive because of it.

    I’ve been reading a lot about this issue and I found out that one of the ways to restore pellicle is to use Xylitol but I’m against it. I think it’s very much processed and not good for sensitive stomachs.

    My homeopath also suggested cell salts but I wasn’t sure if they are going to work. What cell salts are you using?

    I’m also researching ozone therapy as well as ozone treated oils such as olive oil for teeth and gums. It helps to remineralize teeth and kills bad bacteria. Very interesting stuff: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/02/24/invasive-dentistry-benefits.aspx

    Thank you again!

  • January 12, 2014 at 8:30 pm #64610
    Profile photo of WyndieWyndie
    Participant

    YES, Eva please let us know the name of the spray. I’d love to use it for the kids.

    D, we use classical homeopathy. I find it wiser, for us at least, as we have done so many things to heal that going back through their entire history backward didn’t seem practical.

  • January 15, 2014 at 7:21 am #64689
    Profile photo of EvaEva
    Keymaster

    OK, I will lok back in notes to see what the spray is…

    The cell salts are from Hylands, they are homeopathic and my son needs these. We have used the Bioplasm which is all the cell salts but for the specific filling in the teeth enamel, we use #1 Calc. Fluor., #2 Calc. Phos and then the #12 Silicea which seems to help all the cell salts work better. The stains disappeared when doing this combo of three cell salts…. and it hasn’t come back. The spots where his teeth has missing enamel started to fill in too. D has very bad reflux and the missing enamel in on the inside of his back teeth. The staining was all over, on the front teeth as well and looked like someone had painted his teeth with stain that would stain a deck….. it was dark greyish brown but kind of translucent.

  • January 16, 2014 at 2:57 pm #64692
    Profile photo of jamiewest777jamiewest777
    Participant

    My DD are the same as Eva describes above, just recently the brown stains are appearing. They started out with bright white lines near the gum line then began to look translucent. She is 21 mo. She does have low iron but has never had an iron supplement. I’ve been told it’s pretty genetic for her, no suuplement will help. Plus iron supplements feed pathogenic bacteria. I cook all her food in cast iron, and try to give her dessicated liver caps a few times a week The cell salt to help with iron is Ferr Phos.

    We get the cell salts by BestMade, they are lactose free and great high quality

    Here is all I am doing in regards to teeth
    LOTS of minerals!!!
    Cell salts … Ferr Phos, Mag Phos, Silicia, Calc Phos and Calc Flour, 2 of each 2-3 times a day
    Dental Essentials VitD3/K2 supplement (we can’t do the FCLO/BO due to a possible sensetivity)
    Liquid Silica
    Dr. Christopher’s Kids E-Calc (calcium supplement that is basically nettles)
    Zinc
    Magnesium

    Brushing….
    I to bought the Kids Sonicare later to find out it is not recommended for someone as young as her, it’s to rough. The gentler the better actually so we now use a small soft bristle kids brush until she is older.
    First we spray teeth with collidal silver to kill the bacteria that causes decay (strep B) followed by brushing with either coconut oil or a homemade recipe I got from WellnessMama ‘s squeezable toothpaste recipe. I also look Tropical Traditions tooth cleaner, it’s coco oil with xylitol and baking soda and peppermint oil. I then pack the teeth with pascalite clay (to remineralize)
    Then some days we do this, which our very holistic dentist suggested… Brush on 1 drop of lugol’s iodine on teeth and gums, to kill bacteria, then brush with whatever toothpaste you choice, then brush on ozonated olive oil and leave that on. So that’s what we do before bed. The iodine can be done 2-3 times a week is enough not everyday

    The Cure Tooth Decay Diet is no grains, nuts, seeds, fruit…..LOTS of bone broth, FCLO/BO, animal products, ect…. We follow more of the BED diet though

    Lots of moms have had great success haulted their childs decay getting ozone treatments if you can find a dentist that does it. We just stick with the ozonated olive oil

    It’s pretty much a full time job trying to save these teeth!!!!! 😀 Good luck!

  • January 16, 2014 at 3:00 pm #64693
    Profile photo of jamiewest777jamiewest777
    Participant

    Oh yea, our dentist said my DD’s is flourosis even though she’s never exposed. He says down here by me in Miami it’s in the air from farmers spraying pesticides back in the day or something.
    Keep in mind baby teeth begin while in the womb so mothers diet play a huge role

  • January 16, 2014 at 7:20 pm #64694
    Profile photo of tylertaylintylertaylin
    Participant

    Eva I need you to please come here and fix this problem for me. I’ve been too tired many times. Hopefully at some point I’ll work on this.

    I like the idea to put coloidal silver, because I have that!
    Shannon

  • January 18, 2014 at 8:48 pm #64695
    Profile photo of AngelmilaAngelmila
    Participant

    So, I have good news! I stopped giving dd blueberries and organ meats and her stains are not progressing. As a matter of fact, she scraped most of them herself by eating a not so soft pear 🙂 I guess she did have too much iron in her body from organ meats. So, I believe her issue is dietary but we’ll see. So far so good and I don’t see then reappearing just yet.

  • January 20, 2014 at 5:07 am #64696
    Profile photo of EvaEva
    Keymaster

    Blueberries can stain for sure. What we have had nothing to do with food… weird thing, had to be bacterial. I searched a little for the probiotic spray, so far I have only come up with this:

    http://www.beaconoflighthealing.com/Living_Streams_LSP.htm

    That isn’t the one but it does look promising. For some reason, the sprays in the searches are all for dogs now 😥

  • February 8, 2014 at 8:07 pm #64843
    Profile photo of AngelmilaAngelmila
    Participant

    Eva,

    How long did it take before you saw improvement with cell salts? My DD’s teeth got so much better but all of sudden they are really bad again. Her homeopath prescribed Ferrum Phos salt but I don’t see any benefits yet. Thank you!

  • February 15, 2014 at 5:50 pm #64881
    Profile photo of EvaEva
    Keymaster

    It was within a month but I give 4 pills 4x a day….#1, #2 and #12.

  • February 15, 2014 at 7:06 pm #64882
    Profile photo of AngelmilaAngelmila
    Participant

    Interesting, so do you still have to give them every day?

  • March 12, 2014 at 8:55 am #64913
    Profile photo of e johnsone johnson
    Participant

    I found this thread about chromogenic bacteria when I was searching for answers on the subject for my 4 year old daughter. I wanted to come back and write what I have discovered and maybe help some of you on your way.
    My daughter has a cavity and I have been healing it with the Cure Tooth Decay diet (which is just an extension of Dr. Weston A. Price’s diet) so lots of raw milk, FCLO, etc. I was also giving her cell salts, colloidal silver, essential oils and brushing with coconut oil and Dr. Christopher’s tooth powder. Her cavity was slowly healing, not getting worse but slowly getting better. My son also had a cavity at the same time and his quickly healed up. That led me to understand there is a problem in my daughters gut that needs healing because she is not absorbing all that I was giving her. Then I started to notice green on her teeth. It was down on the gum line and climbing up the teeth. I could scrape it off if I tried. I started to research and found it was chromogenic bacteria, but I could not find the cause- just the answer to go to a dentist and have it polished off. This bugged me. If there is a problem in the body, I believe we caused it and if we find the imbalance then we can fix it.
    I came to the conclusion that the bacteria imbalance must be from her gut. I started to give her kefer, Food grade diatomaceous earth and she started oil pulling. These have helped her so much. The oil pulling has helped her teeth so much! It has helped the bacteria and the cavity. She can only pull for about 5 minutes, but it has had an amazing effect.
    I also spoke to an herbologist who said she thinks my daughter has parasites. I got a cleanse for kids and we are on day 3 of that.
    So, I think instead of looking at the teeth look at the stomach. There must be yeast or some kind of parasite there that is causing the imbalance.
    I will let you know how it goes.
    Thanks for this thread. It helped me so much. I hope this can help someone out there too.

  • March 12, 2014 at 7:57 pm #64914
    Profile photo of AngelmilaAngelmila
    Participant

    Thank you for this information! I read a lot about oil pulling, it seems to detoxify the body. Unfortunately, my daughter is too young to oil pull, she is only 17 months but I definitely agree that it’s not the teeth problem but some kind of imbalance in her body. Problem is it’s so hard to pinpoint what’s causing it, she already is on Western price type of diet with a lot of fermented vegetables for probiotics. She also doesn’t consume gluten or cow’s milk, only goat milk.

    When you brushed with coconut oil did you see any difference in staining?

    Thank you!

  • March 15, 2014 at 9:34 pm #64921
    Profile photo of e johnsone johnson
    Participant

    I did notice a small difference when I started brushing with coconut oil. I think that is because coconut oil is anti-fungal. I first dip the brush into the oil and then I dip it into Dr. Christopher’s tooth powder and then brush.
    Is your baby a “sugar bug” with a blue vein in the corner of her eye? You can find a really interesting article about that on holisticsquid.com
    My daughter is a sugar bug kid. And has is easily susceptible to candida overgrowth.
    You might add some Food Grade Diatomaceous earth to her diet?
    I think my daughter’s is due to parasites in her gut. We are on day 5 or so of the cleanse, I will let you know how it goes! Thanks for responding. It is so nice to chat with like minded people.

  • March 5, 2015 at 12:57 am #73724
    Profile photo of AnggaAngga
    Participant

    Hello everyone,
    I found same problem on my kids’ tooth. The color of the stain is greyish and we got this after we changed our diet following Weston Price. I suspect the raw milk and kefir are the main cause for the coming of this bacteria on the tooth. We are also wondering wether this bacteria is harmful for the development of the teeth or not especially when it turns to the permanent one.
    I do hope to get updated information about the same issues that you are facing. I would appreciate if anyone in this forum could share any development in fighting this bacteria.
    Thank you!

  • August 28, 2016 at 7:17 pm #78487
    Profile photo of HeatherHeather
    Participant

    Thank you for this information. My son is 19 months, has these stains, and is a sugar bug. All of this information is very new to me. It was your post that helped me to link his blue vein with these stains. Please let me know if you all have found any more solutions. I have ordered the cell salts but am brand new to homeopathy.

  • February 8, 2017 at 2:17 am #78699
    Profile photo of Haydon PisachoHaydon Pisacho
    Participant

    Clean teeth in toddlers is not so common and it seems that they are more prone to staining because of iron present in the milk. These substances accumulate in baby’s mouth cavity and create bacteria thriving area. Oral hygiene is something that should be taken care of right from the beginning. It is this time when good habits should be inculcated in children so that it has a long run impact on them. Grooming and involving regular habits in children not only improves their health at presents but creates a long-term impact on them which gives them the ability to take care of themselves throughout a lifetime.

  • February 8, 2017 at 8:13 am #78700
    Profile photo of EvaEva
    Keymaster

    This is an odd comment here, do you realize we are talking about autistic children who are not infants and most aren’t toddlers?  There is no iron in any milk we recommend, maybe you are referring to iron fortified formula.  I assure you my son with this issue at 7 and 8 years old was not on iron fortified formula.

  • February 25, 2017 at 7:28 pm #78732
  • February 26, 2017 at 7:13 am #78735
    Profile photo of EvaEva
    Keymaster

    Some interesting ideas. Our dentist said it was metabolic which means it’s the body not processing correctly which is pretty obvious.

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